The Brexit Thread (LOCKED)
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Catfish  Burgess Hill 25 Jun 16 9.03pm |
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It had to happen
Yes, I am an agent of Satan but my duties are largely ceremonial |
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 Y Ddraig Goch  In The Crowd 25 Jun 16 9.08pm |
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Originally posted by matt_himself
I don't know - I cannot guess the exact outcome of Brexit negotiations and I have already said I don't think we will leave the EU and that a deal will be done. I was asked by Michael to interpret what someone in Leave said. I didn't say I agreed with it, I agreed with very little the Leave campaign said during the Referendum. If they had stuck to the fact that the EU is corrupt and beyond reform, that would have sat a lot more comfortably with me. It's all a bit of a mess. When you have cross party alliances over a specific point (in this case the referendum) once the dust settles and those alliances disappear, you are faced with the parties arguing what Brexit will look like. Even within each party you will have significant differences because of people's attitude to Europe. For example Hannan last night was saying that he could see the freedom of movement of labour would continue. I am not sure all Brexiters would view that the same.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 9.10pm |
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Interesting analysis of the pickle Boris and the Tories are in now... From the guardians comments section: If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost. Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron. With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership. How? Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor. And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew. The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction. The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50? Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders? Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated. If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act. The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice. When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 9.20pm |
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. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 9.26pm)
COYP |
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 9.25pm |
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FFS Nick the Guardian in that article are more guilty of verbal tripe than Blair and Cameron combined. Boris was showing humility in that press conference. Dave resigned because his position would become more and more untenable every day. Remember the lies and exaggerations he told? Here's the biggest: We can cope....we're doomed. They haven't covered, if Boris runs for leadership and loses to the other candidate (there will be 2), he'll be an MP still and possibly even in the cabinet. Honestly Nick, what a clutching at straws bucket of bu11sh1t. And this bit, When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
FFS, every man and his cat has been going on today that they cannot do anything until a leader is decided and possibly a general election has been decided. Even you have said you don't want anything done, decided until you get a chance to vote (will it be Corbyn or wasted on Caroline out of touch with normal people Lucas?) God that article isn't worth wiping your &rse on. The markets dropped well before Cameron appeared outside no 10 to supposedly trap Boris, with his wife looking hugely concerned for her husband in the aftermath of sealing his defeat and political death. After that the markets recovered following Carney's speech. A different Carney to weeks leading up to Brexit. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 9.42pm)
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| Rudi Hedman Caterham 25 Jun 16 9.30pm |
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These bitter sour grapes are more childish than playing last goal wins well into the dark hours in July when you're 53-47 down.
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| nickgusset Shizzlehurst 25 Jun 16 9.39pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
FFS Nick the Guardian in that article are more guilty of verbal tripe than Blair and Cameron combined. Boris was showing humility in that press conference. Dave resigned because his position would become more and more untenable every day. Remember the lies and exaggerations he told? Here's the biggest: We can cope....we're doomed. They haven't covered, if Boris runs for leadership and loses to the other candidate (there will be 2), he'll be an MP still and possibly even in the cabinet. Honestly Nick, what a clutching at straws bucket of bu11sh1t. And this bit, When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
FFS, every man and his cat has been going on today that they cannot do anything until a leader is decided and possibly a genera election has happened. Even you have said you don't want anything doen, decided until you get a chance to vote (will it be Corbyn or wasted on Carline out of touch with norma people Caroline Lucas?) God that article isn't worth wiping your &rse on. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 9.27pm) Fair enough, I thought it had some salient points.
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Attachment:  Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.40pm |
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Originally posted by nickgusset
Interesting analysis of the pickle Boris and the Tories are in now... From the guardians comments section: If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost. Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron. With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership. How? Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor. And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew. The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction. The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50? Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders? Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated. If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act. The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice. When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign. I thought that you might be too smart to be taken in by bad loser bum gravy like this, Nick. Disappointed in you.
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| Mapletree Croydon 25 Jun 16 9.41pm |
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Originally posted by Rudi Hedman
FFS Nick the Guardian in that article are more guilty of verbal tripe than Blair and Cameron combined. Boris was showing humility in that press conference. Dave resigned because his position would become more and more untenable every day. Remember the lies and exaggerations he told? Here's the biggest: We can cope....we're doomed. They haven't covered, if Boris runs for leadership and loses to the other candidate (there will be 2), he'll be an MP still and possibly even in the cabinet. Honestly Nick, what a clutching at straws bucket of bu11sh1t. And this bit, When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take. All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.
FFS, every man and his cat has been going on today that they cannot do anything until a leader is decided and possibly a genera election has happened. Even you have said you don't want anything doen, decided until you get a chance to vote (will it be Corbyn or wasted on Carline out of touch with norma people Caroline Lucas?) God that article isn't worth wiping your &rse on. Edited by Rudi Hedman (25 Jun 2016 9.27pm) Trying to grasp your point here Rudi Are you saying Boris will throw the leadership contest on purpose to avoid taking on the mantle? The article indicates nobody wants to take on this amount of hassle. Who would like to be the one that presides over the exit of Scotland? Well maybe a back bencher with nothing to lose. But Boris may well be too savvy to get tangled up in this.
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Kermit8  Hevon 25 Jun 16 9.51pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
You're only saying that because your opinion did not prevail. It's a churlish attitude to democracy, Kermie me boy, and bears all the hallmarks of the sourest of grapes.
Big chest and massive boobs |
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| Cucking Funt Clapham on the Back 25 Jun 16 9.51pm |
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Originally posted by Mapletree
Trying to grasp your point here Rudi Are you saying Boris will throw the leadership contest on purpose to avoid taking on the mantle? The article indicates nobody wants to take on this amount of hassle. Who would like to be the one that presides over the exit of Scotland? Well maybe a back bencher with nothing to lose. But Boris may well be too savvy to get tangled up in this. I'd humbly suggest that BJ was not expecting a win but a (very) narrow Remain vote, hoping to hole Cameron below the waterline, let him limp on for a couple of years (or let Cameron resign and allow a caretaker to come in), leaving him free to go for the leadership in a few years' time. I think the Conservatives are in unplanned territory and actually haven't got a clue what the next move is.
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| minted 25 Jun 16 9.53pm |
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Originally posted by Cucking Funt
I wonder if you'd have called 'foul' or been so anxious for a rerun had Remain won by a similar margin. This bothered me right from the day the referendum was called, but don't trust me, have a look for it.
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