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Woman arrested for silent prayer, god save us

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View berlinpalace's Profile berlinpalace Flag berlin 29 Dec 22 9.42am Send a Private Message to berlinpalace Add berlinpalace as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

I think this is the crux of the matter. Rather than a specific defence of this lady; it's concern that these restrictions might be extended to include other protesters in less emotive circumstances.

We’ve already seen the police using the powers they have to arrest protesters in their homes before they even get to the scene. If this government gets its way being banned from specific locations will be the least of our worries. So you’re right that there are legitimate concerns about our right to protest.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 29 Dec 22 9.51am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by Teddy Eagle

I think this is the crux of the matter. Rather than a specific defence of this lady; it's concern that these restrictions might be extended to include other protesters in less emotive circumstances.

The law is a very specific amendment

The amendment bars “influencing, impeding or threatening, intimidating or harassing, advising or persuading, using graphic, physical, verbal or written means to inform attendees about abortion services”.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 Dec 22 9.53am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

The law is a very specific amendment

The amendment bars “influencing, impeding or threatening, intimidating or harassing, advising or persuading, using graphic, physical, verbal or written means to inform attendees about abortion services”.

She was doing none of those things.

 

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View Teddy Eagle's Profile Teddy Eagle Flag 29 Dec 22 9.54am Send a Private Message to Teddy Eagle Add Teddy Eagle as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

The law is a very specific amendment

The amendment bars “influencing, impeding or threatening, intimidating or harassing, advising or persuading, using graphic, physical, verbal or written means to inform attendees about abortion services”.

Hence "extending".

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 Dec 22 9.55am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by berlinpalace

There’s no supposition here, the video clearly shows a known activist in an area she is banned from protesting in. There are some desperate attempts to claim she was arrested for a “thought crime “ when the simple fact is she wasn’t supposed to be there.

She was entitled to be there. There is no law against her being there physically. She was arrested for saying she was praying silently.

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 Dec 22 9.58am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle

Not necessary. They would ask questions and decide on the answers. Someone just loitering in a street where an order exists is either up to no good or needs help.

The regulation does not prohibit people being physically in a public street. She was arrested because she said she might have been praying silently.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 29 Dec 22 10.27am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

She was doing none of those things.

We shall find out when this gets to court. An arrest isn’t a conviction, perhaps the police officer overstepped.

She has however been found guilty on four previous occasions, maybe she now has found how to avoid that.

As a matter of interest why do you think she was there?

The extension point is nonsense. The amendment was the result of a parliamentary vote and had a high level of support.

 

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Yellow Card - User has been warned of conduct on the messageboards View HKOwen's Profile HKOwen Flag Hong Kong 29 Dec 22 10.34am Send a Private Message to HKOwen Add HKOwen as a friend

Originally posted by cryrst

Was that really the first part of the video though. Experience on the media says there was a chance it wasn’t or was a reply to her statement.

I can only comment on what is in front of me

 


Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance.

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 Dec 22 11.08am Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

We shall find out when this gets to court. An arrest isn’t a conviction, perhaps the police officer overstepped.

She has however been found guilty on four previous occasions, maybe she now has found how to avoid that.

As a matter of interest why do you think she was there?

The extension point is nonsense. The amendment was the result of a parliamentary vote and had a high level of support.

Perhaps the court will need to call mind-readers as expert witnesses?
I think she was there as someone who might go to a cemetery to mourn for the dead.

 

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View Mapletree's Profile Mapletree Flag Croydon 29 Dec 22 11.56am Send a Private Message to Mapletree Add Mapletree as a friend

Originally posted by georgenorman

Perhaps the court will need to call mind-readers as expert witnesses?
I think she was there as someone who might go to a cemetery to mourn for the dead.

I don't.

An interesting quote

'it was 'obvious' that the anti-abortion campaigner was trying to martyr herself and she deliberately went to the abortion clinic to get arrested. It's so obvious she's martyring herself in the glare of the public as a way of publicising her beliefs, she knowingly went into that area to get arrested.'

I agree with this. I am sure you do too. And let's not forget she travelled at least 35 miles to get to the abortion clinic. There are plenty of cemeteries far closer.

Jesus was quite clear that people should pray quietly at home not conspicuously in the street "like the hypocrites do". ''Do not pray on like the hypocrites do, for they all like to be seen by men; they stand in prayer before synagogues and at street corners. I am telling you the truth, they already have the payment they crave. When you pray, enter into your room, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father, Who is hidden.'' Matthew 6:5

According to Jesus, hypocrites appear righteous to others but are merely play-acting and are full of deceit.Matthew 23:28. That seems to cover it.

So, is she a hypocrite and/or was she standing in the street to discourage and humiliate vulnerable young women considering abortion?

We shall see what happens when she appears at Birmingham Magistrates Court on February 2 charged with four counts of failing to comply with a Public Space Protection Order.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Dec 2022 11.58am)

 

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View georgenorman's Profile georgenorman Flag 29 Dec 22 12.08pm Send a Private Message to georgenorman Add georgenorman as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I don't.

An interesting quote

'it was 'obvious' that the anti-abortion campaigner was trying to martyr herself and she deliberately went to the abortion clinic to get arrested. It's so obvious she's martyring herself in the glare of the public as a way of publicising her beliefs, she knowingly went into that area to get arrested.'

I agree with this. I am sure you do too. And let's not forget she travelled at least 35 miles to get to the abortion clinic. There are plenty of cemeteries far closer.

Jesus was quite clear that people should pray quietly at home not conspicuously in the street "like the hypocrites do". ''Do not pray on like the hypocrites do, for they all like to be seen by men; they stand in prayer before synagogues and at street corners. I am telling you the truth, they already have the payment they crave. When you pray, enter into your room, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father, Who is hidden.'' Matthew 6:5

According to Jesus, hypocrites appear righteous to others but are merely play-acting and are full of deceit.Matthew 23:28. That seems to cover it.

So, is she a hypocrite and/or was she standing in the street to discourage and humiliate vulnerable young women considering abortion?

We shall see what happens when she appears at Birmingham Magistrates Court on February 2 charged with four counts of failing to comply with a Public Space Protection Order.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Dec 2022 11.58am)

It is not obvious at all, it is merely how you are interpreting events.

You don’t only have to go to a cemetery to mourn the dead. People often go to places where deaths have occurred to lay flowers etc.

Nobody was aware that she was praying, she merely said that she might have been praying. If she was, it was silently and certainly not conspicuously.

She was not contravening the regulations by being physically in the area, she was arrested because she might have been praying silently.

 

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View Nicholas91's Profile Nicholas91 Flag The Democratic Republic of Kent 29 Dec 22 12.13pm Send a Private Message to Nicholas91 Add Nicholas91 as a friend

Originally posted by Mapletree

I don't.

An interesting quote

'it was 'obvious' that the anti-abortion campaigner was trying to martyr herself and she deliberately went to the abortion clinic to get arrested. It's so obvious she's martyring herself in the glare of the public as a way of publicising her beliefs, she knowingly went into that area to get arrested.'

I agree with this. I am sure you do too. And let's not forget she travelled at least 35 miles to get to the abortion clinic. There are plenty of cemeteries far closer.

Jesus was quite clear that people should pray quietly at home not conspicuously in the street "like the hypocrites do". ''Do not pray on like the hypocrites do, for they all like to be seen by men; they stand in prayer before synagogues and at street corners. I am telling you the truth, they already have the payment they crave. When you pray, enter into your room, shut the door behind you, and pray to your Father, Who is hidden.'' Matthew 6:5

According to Jesus, hypocrites appear righteous to others but are merely play-acting and are full of deceit.Matthew 23:28. That seems to cover it.

So, is she a hypocrite and/or was she standing in the street to discourage and humiliate vulnerable young women considering abortion?

We shall see what happens when she appears at Birmingham Magistrates Court on February 2 charged with four counts of failing to comply with a Public Space Protection Order.

Edited by Mapletree (29 Dec 2022 11.58am)

I don't see why there should be much debate about this, it's quite obvious what this women was trying to achieve or intending in her actions. To argue against it is at best an exhausting process which would never fully justify any differing hypothesis.

The debate should however be as to whether or not this should justify authority to arrest her? Whilst it may well be a very deliberate and obvious attempt to push limits, has the ball actually gone out of play? Does silent prayer constitute a protest or intimidation? I'd gently suggest not.

I do however have concerns about the law supposedly having authority to arrest individuals based upon the subjective feelings of others, whether they be plausible, logical or not. The act of standing silently in a place should not be a crime. Whether you agree with abortion or not you can't dictate to others how they must or must not act, in public, to suit your own needs/requirements of the world.

Furthermore, my beef primarily lies with the supposed police capacity to enforce such power whilst their inability to attend the likes of (very often mentioned) burglaries go massively under-investigated/resolved. That screams of an ideological thought police force as opposed to one that is seeking to actively solve and reduce cut and dry crimes and pursue actual criminals.

 


Now Zaha's got a bit of green grass ahead of him here... and finds Ambrose... not a bad effort!!!!

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