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npn Crowborough 16 May 14 8.27am
Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. What should be remembered is that Labour and the Liberal Democrats won’t give you a say. UKIP can’t give you a say. It’s only the Conservatives who can and will give you a say in an in-out referendum. I am happy to report that the messages I have been receiving on the doorsteps are very positive indeed. More door knocking and bell ringing today and over the weekend ! There are also Local elections in my area ! Busy time so I really don't have the time to get into a protracted debate on HOL much as I would like to ! Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am) To be honest Willo, and this comes from someone who has voted Tory far more in the past than any other party, I just don't believe them! I have completely lost all faith in politicians from all the three main parties - they have shown themselves time and time again to be completely untrustworthy, and in it for their own political careers, and whatever they can get out of it.
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npn

Crowborough 16 May 14 8.27am

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs !
Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway.

What should be remembered is that Labour and the Liberal Democrats won’t give you a say. UKIP can’t give you a say. It’s only the Conservatives who can and will give you a say in an in-out referendum.

I am happy to report that the messages I have been receiving on the doorsteps are very positive indeed.
More door knocking and bell ringing today and over the weekend ! There are also Local elections in my area ! Busy time so I really don't have the time to get into a protracted debate on HOL much as I would like to !

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am)

To be honest Willo, and this comes from someone who has voted Tory far more in the past than any other party, I just don't believe them!

I have completely lost all faith in politicians from all the three main parties - they have shown themselves time and time again to be completely untrustworthy, and in it for their own political careers, and whatever they can get out of it.

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kangel 16 May 14 8.30am
Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. What should be remembered is that Labour and the Liberal Democrats won’t give you a say. UKIP can’t give you a say. It’s only the Conservatives who can and will give you a say in an in-out referendum. I am happy to report that the messages I have been receiving on the doorsteps are very positive indeed. More door knocking and bell ringing today and over the weekend ! There are also Local elections in my area ! Busy time so I really don't have the time to get into a protracted debate on HOL much as I would like to ! ------------------------------------------------- "renegotiating Britain's relationship with Europe" is like haggling over the protection money you had to pay to the Kray twins. (It was Heath who set us on this sorry road in the first place.) Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 8.31am)
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kangel

16 May 14 8.30am

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

What should be remembered is that Labour and the Liberal Democrats won’t give you a say. UKIP can’t give you a say. It’s only the Conservatives who can and will give you a say in an in-out referendum.

-------------------------------------------------
"renegotiating Britain's relationship with Europe" is like haggling over the protection money you had to pay to the Kray twins. (It was Heath who set us on this sorry road in the first place.)

Edited by kangel (16 May 2014 8.31am)

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SloveniaDave Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 9.09am
Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm [b]May's 'elections' will see big losses for all pro-EU parties, ie the three major parties and hopefully, the Liberals in particular. Pro-EU remnants will then say that the answer is 'more Europe', whatever the economic reality and whatever the wishes of their constituents. For years, their policies have caused unemployment, deflation and emigration across Europe, while the IOUs pile up in the richer member states. Nothing makes them question their faith. No amount of suffering, no amount of debt moves them to admit that the single currency might have been a mistake. They are literally beyond argument - which raises the question, who are the real extremists here? Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it. I don't see how the rest of your post makes much sense though. The debate is very much moving towards a 'smaller Europe', which I think is sensible, but to blame 'Europe' for unemployment and deflation is not supported by the facts. I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain? Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm) 'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?) If we are 'isolated' from the whirlpool of the EU disappearing down its own plughole under the weight of its inherent contradictions - fine. 'Socialst Republic of Britain (you think I advocate that?) - the EU has far more in common with the various failed Communist 'systems' of the past with its ludicrous 'planning', 'controls' and rigged markets. Not at all. I have been living and working in Eurozone countries (or countries who peg their currency to the Euro) for almost 10 years. The problem with the Euro is that it was not introduced with the full range of measures needed (i.e. countermeasures to allow for the fact that devaluation was no longer an option for weaker economies). As a result, when the financial crisis started, it was more vulnerable and the weaknesses showed. I fully support the UK's decision to remain outside the Euro (both then and now, and for the foreseeable future) but that does not mean it is a bad thing for most of the counties who are members of it. Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am) Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am) Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand! My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right. (Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)
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SloveniaDave

Tirana, Albania 16 May 14 9.09am

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am

Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm

[b]May's 'elections' will see big losses for all pro-EU parties, ie the three major parties and hopefully, the Liberals in particular. Pro-EU remnants will then say that the answer is 'more Europe', whatever the economic reality and whatever the wishes of their constituents. For years, their policies have caused unemployment, deflation and emigration across Europe, while the IOUs pile up in the richer member states. Nothing makes them question their faith. No amount of suffering, no amount of debt moves them to admit that the single currency might have been a mistake. They are literally beyond argument - which raises the question, who are the real extremists here?

Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it.

I don't see how the rest of your post makes much sense though. The debate is very much moving towards a 'smaller Europe', which I think is sensible, but to blame 'Europe' for unemployment and deflation is not supported by the facts.

I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain?

Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm)

'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?)

If we are 'isolated' from the whirlpool of the EU disappearing down its own plughole under the weight of its inherent contradictions - fine. 'Socialst Republic of Britain (you think I advocate that?) - the EU has far more in common with the various failed Communist 'systems' of the past with its ludicrous 'planning', 'controls' and rigged markets.

Not at all. I have been living and working in Eurozone countries (or countries who peg their currency to the Euro) for almost 10 years. The problem with the Euro is that it was not introduced with the full range of measures needed (i.e. countermeasures to allow for the fact that devaluation was no longer an option for weaker economies). As a result, when the financial crisis started, it was more vulnerable and the weaknesses showed.

I fully support the UK's decision to remain outside the Euro (both then and now, and for the foreseeable future) but that does not mean it is a bad thing for most of the counties who are members of it.

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am)

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am)

Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand!

My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.

(Member of the School of Optimism 1969-2016 inclusive)

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The White Horse 16 May 14 9.56am
Quote Willo at 15 May 2014 11.47pm Quote Johnny Eagles at 15 May 2014 9.34pm By trotting out your tory central office mantra, you've missed the point of ukip. They already ARE delivering. All the main parties are running scared. Cameron came out on Andrew Marr last week saying stuff about a referendum he wouldn't have said in a million years if it weren't for ukip. Hogwash. UKIP couldn't deliver milk ! The party that are delivering are the Conservatives : Cutting the EU budget for the first time in history saving the British taxpayer over £8BN. Vetoing a new EU fiscal treaty that didn't guarantee a level "Playing field" for British businesses. Getting Britain out of the Eurozone bailouts ETC ETC Anyway, I'm off to bed now so goodnight one and all ! Wasn't there a rebellion in the Commons on this issue? Didn't Cameron basically get shown up by Labour and his backbenchers? Not exactly bold and exciting leadership in the EU. "The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee
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The White Horse

16 May 14 9.56am

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Quote Willo at 15 May 2014 11.47pm

Quote Johnny Eagles at 15 May 2014 9.34pm

By trotting out your tory central office mantra, you've missed the point of ukip. They already ARE delivering. All the main parties are running scared. Cameron came out on Andrew Marr last week saying stuff about a referendum he wouldn't have said in a million years if it weren't for ukip.

Hogwash.
UKIP couldn't deliver milk !

The party that are delivering are the Conservatives :

Cutting the EU budget for the first time in history saving the British taxpayer over £8BN.
Vetoing a new EU fiscal treaty that didn't guarantee a level "Playing field" for British businesses.
Getting Britain out of the Eurozone bailouts ETC ETC

Anyway, I'm off to bed now so goodnight one and all !

Wasn't there a rebellion in the Commons on this issue? Didn't Cameron basically get shown up by Labour and his backbenchers? Not exactly bold and exciting leadership in the EU.

"The fox has his den. The bee has his hive. The stoat, has, uh... his stoat-hole... but only man chooses to make his nest in an investment opportunity.” Stewart Lee

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kangel 16 May 14 12.35pm
Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 9.09am Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm [b]May's 'elections' will see big losses for all pro-EU parties, ie the three major parties and hopefully, the Liberals in particular. Pro-EU remnants will then say that the answer is 'more Europe', whatever the economic reality and whatever the wishes of their constituents. For years, their policies have caused unemployment, deflation and emigration across Europe, while the IOUs pile up in the richer member states. Nothing makes them question their faith. No amount of suffering, no amount of debt moves them to admit that the single currency might have been a mistake. They are literally beyond argument - which raises the question, who are the real extremists here? Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it. I don't see how the rest of your post makes much sense though. The debate is very much moving towards a 'smaller Europe', which I think is sensible, but to blame 'Europe' for unemployment and deflation is not supported by the facts. I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain? Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm) 'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?) If we are 'isolated' from the whirlpool of the EU disappearing down its own plughole under the weight of its inherent contradictions - fine. 'Socialst Republic of Britain (you think I advocate that?) - the EU has far more in common with the various failed Communist 'systems' of the past with its ludicrous 'planning', 'controls' and rigged markets. Not at all. I have been living and working in Eurozone countries (or countries who peg their currency to the Euro) for almost 10 years. The problem with the Euro is that it was not introduced with the full range of measures needed (i.e. countermeasures to allow for the fact that devaluation was no longer an option for weaker economies). As a result, when the financial crisis started, it was more vulnerable and the weaknesses showed. I fully support the UK's decision to remain outside the Euro (both then and now, and for the foreseeable future) but that does not mean it is a bad thing for most of the counties who are members of it. Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am) Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am) "the full range of measures" EU-speak for useless 'controls' and 'planning' that try to buck the market - the sort of thing that is at the heart of most of the problems with the EU.
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kangel

16 May 14 12.35pm

Quote SloveniaDave at 16 May 2014 9.09am

Quote kangel at 16 May 2014 7.52am

Quote SloveniaDave at 15 May 2014 11.04pm

Can't argue with the first point and there are certainly major problems with the single currency, although most are about how it was introduced, rather than the principle of it.

I am not clear, from your posts, what you propose as an alternative though? Are you looking for an isolated, UKIP-style UK, a UK as the 51st state of the USA or the Socialist Republic of Britain?

Edited by SloveniaDave (15 May 2014 11.04pm)

'Major problems' with the single currency - don't you mean the biggest disaster in financial history? (If only it had been 'introduced' better!!!! Then it would have been a roaring success?)

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.10am)

Edited by SloveniaDave (16 May 2014 9.11am)

"the full range of measures" EU-speak for useless 'controls' and 'planning' that try to buck the market - the sort of thing that is at the heart of most of the problems with the EU.

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Stirlingsays 16 May 14 2.09pm
Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am) IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by thirty three percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine. If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising. No wonder people are cynical. Edited by Stirlingsays (16 May 2014 3.28pm) 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 May 14 2.09pm

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs !
Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway.

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am)

IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by thirty three percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine.

If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising.

No wonder people are cynical.

Edited by Stirlingsays (16 May 2014 3.28pm)

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Johnny Eagles berlin 16 May 14 2.28pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 2.09pm Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am) IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by twenty five percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine. If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising. No wonder people are cynical. Willo believing the party machine!? Absolute HOGWASH! ...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...
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Johnny Eagles

berlin 16 May 14 2.28pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 2.09pm

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am)

IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by twenty five percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine.

If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising.

No wonder people are cynical.

Willo believing the party machine!?

Absolute HOGWASH!

...we must expand...get more pupils...so that the knowledge will spread...

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Stuk Top half 16 May 14 2.32pm
Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 2.09pm Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am) IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by twenty five percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine. If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising. No wonder people are cynical. 33% Optimistic as ever
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Stuk

Top half 16 May 14 2.32pm

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 2.09pm

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am)

IMF funding was increased by ten billion to forty billion in 2012 by George Osborne. Up by twenty five percent.....I hear what you are saying but it isn't borne out by the actual facts. Maybe you just choose to believe the party machine.

If what you are saying to people on the doorstep is similar to what you're posting here.....Well, it's cherry picking and advertising.

No wonder people are cynical.

33%

Optimistic as ever

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jamiemartin721 Reading 16 May 14 3.09pm
Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am Is that what you're saying on the doorstep? Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs. It was Labour who signed up to the costly bail-outs ! Not withstanding this, it is the Conservatives who are renogiating Britain's relationship with Europe and there is still work to be done, however the process is underway. What should be remembered is that Labour and the Liberal Democrats won’t give you a say. UKIP can’t give you a say. It’s only the Conservatives who can and will give you a say in an in-out referendum. I am happy to report that the messages I have been receiving on the doorsteps are very positive indeed. More door knocking and bell ringing today and over the weekend ! There are also Local elections in my area ! Busy time so I really don't have the time to get into a protracted debate on HOL much as I would like to ! Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am) I suspect the reality is that neither really have anywhere near the kind of influence over the ecconomy that they pretend to. Labour were probably right to sign the bail out and the conservatives would have done the same. The risk of not doing so, to the status quo, of the UK was too great. I wouldn't trust either party to tell me the time without lying. "One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug" [Link]
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jamiemartin721

Reading 16 May 14 3.09pm

Quote Willo at 16 May 2014 8.14am

Quote Stirlingsays at 16 May 2014 7.02am

Is that what you're saying on the doorstep?

Britain out of the bailouts? Talk about moving the deckchairs.

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 8.19am)

I suspect the reality is that neither really have anywhere near the kind of influence over the ecconomy that they pretend to.

Labour were probably right to sign the bail out and the conservatives would have done the same. The risk of not doing so, to the status quo, of the UK was too great.

I wouldn't trust either party to tell me the time without lying.

"One Nation Under God, has turned into One Nation Under the Influence of One Drug"
[Link]

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Willo South coast - west of Brighton. 16 May 14 3.21pm
Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 May 2014 3.09pm Labour were probably right to sign the bail out and the conservatives would have done the same. The risk of not doing so, to the status quo, of the UK was too great. It was David Cameron who vetoed a new EU fiscal Treaty that would have damaged Britain's interests.Whereas Labour jeopardized our rebate and weakly signed up for the Eurozone bailouts the Conservatives put a stop to that and I believe that this was the first ever power returned from Brussels to Britain. Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 3.22pm)
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Willo

South coast - west of Brighton. 16 May 14 3.21pm

Quote jamiemartin721 at 16 May 2014 3.09pm

Labour were probably right to sign the bail out and the conservatives would have done the same. The risk of not doing so, to the status quo, of the UK was too great.

It was David Cameron who vetoed a new EU fiscal Treaty that would have damaged Britain's interests.Whereas Labour jeopardized our rebate and weakly signed up for the Eurozone bailouts the Conservatives put a stop to that and I believe that this was the first ever power returned from Brussels to Britain.

Edited by Willo (16 May 2014 3.22pm)

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Stirlingsays 16 May 14 3.27pm
Quote Stuk at 16 May 2014 2.32pm 33% Of course...I'll edit that. 'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)
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Stirlingsays

16 May 14 3.27pm

Quote Stuk at 16 May 2014 2.32pm

33%

Of course...I'll edit that.

'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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