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Is Bert the Head right about media and politics?

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nickgusset Flag Shizzlehurst 27 Nov 15 9.19pm

From Corbyn's Facebook page - not written by Corbyn himself.

Interesting analysis of the British Press' coverage of Corbyn's first week, which will surprise no one:

"The British press "systematically undermined" Jeremy Corbyn with an onslaught of negative media coverage in his first week as Labour leader, new research has claimed.

The Media Reform Coalition analysed nearly 500 pieces across eight national newspapers, including The Sun, The Times, Guardian and Daily Mail, and found 60% of their articles were 'negative', meaning they were openly hostile or expressed animosity or ridicule.

Out of the 494 articles across the papers during Corbyn's first seven days at leader, 60% (296 articles) were negative, with only 13% positive stories (65 articles) and 27% taking a "neutral" stance (133 articles), the report says."

This wasn't just "opinion pieces" or editorials, it was the reporting of the news that was slanted. More to the point, all the negative media is driven by one incontrovertible fact (as the authors point out): the "profoundly anti-democratic" monopoly ownership of the British press:

"Newspapers have every right to take a partisan line in their reporting and freedom of the press is a key component of democratic societies," the reports author Emily Seymour wrote, but she stressed their concern about the monopoly over ownership of UK newspapers, which they called "profoundly anti-democratic."

Around 70% of newspaper media is owned by just three companies - News Corp, The Daily Mail & General Trust, and Trinity Mirror.

What concerns us, however, are the ownership structures underlying this degree of political intervention," the report said. "The risk of undue influence on elected politicians is high, and it’s hard to see how democracy can flourish when the mass channels of debate are monopolised in the way that they are.

When a handful of conglomerates and individual owners have such significant influence over the UK media environment, it becomes virtually impossible for progressive ideas to get a fair hearing."

 

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View matt_himself's Profile matt_himself Flag Matataland 27 Nov 15 9.43pm Send a Private Message to matt_himself Add matt_himself as a friend

Quote nickgusset at 27 Nov 2015 9.19pm

From Corbyn's Facebook page - not written by Corbyn himself.

Interesting analysis of the British Press' coverage of Corbyn's first week, which will surprise no one:

"The British press "systematically undermined" Jeremy Corbyn with an onslaught of negative media coverage in his first week as Labour leader, new research has claimed.

The Media Reform Coalition analysed nearly 500 pieces across eight national newspapers, including The Sun, The Times, Guardian and Daily Mail, and found 60% of their articles were 'negative', meaning they were openly hostile or expressed animosity or ridicule.

Out of the 494 articles across the papers during Corbyn's first seven days at leader, 60% (296 articles) were negative, with only 13% positive stories (65 articles) and 27% taking a "neutral" stance (133 articles), the report says."

This wasn't just "opinion pieces" or editorials, it was the reporting of the news that was slanted. More to the point, all the negative media is driven by one incontrovertible fact (as the authors point out): the "profoundly anti-democratic" monopoly ownership of the British press:

"Newspapers have every right to take a partisan line in their reporting and freedom of the press is a key component of democratic societies," the reports author Emily Seymour wrote, but she stressed their concern about the monopoly over ownership of UK newspapers, which they called "profoundly anti-democratic."

Around 70% of newspaper media is owned by just three companies - News Corp, The Daily Mail & General Trust, and Trinity Mirror.

What concerns us, however, are the ownership structures underlying this degree of political intervention," the report said. "The risk of undue influence on elected politicians is high, and it’s hard to see how democracy can flourish when the mass channels of debate are monopolised in the way that they are.

When a handful of conglomerates and individual owners have such significant influence over the UK media environment, it becomes virtually impossible for progressive ideas to get a fair hearing."

You will believe what you want to believe but maybe you need to consider that Corbyn is not a very good leader. He is presiding over a split party, doesn't appear to have any grand political vision just a set of outdated 'principles', is wildly out of synch will public feeling on terrorism by appearing to show sympathy for the perpetrators of mass murder, is paranoid to the extreme and this manifests itself in him surrounding himself with only like minded politicians and doesn't include Labour moderates in his shadow cabinet, is a hypocrite because he demands MP's vote as he wants them to when his record as a backbencher was one of continued voting against the party whip and he has an unlikeable, aloof persona which people fail to identify with.

I also find the reference to him as 'progressive' as being wildly inaccurate and it's laughable that the word 'undemocratic' is used in the article in a week when a key member of his shadow cabinet reference Mao in the Commons.

Don't patronise us with the undercurrent of your sentiment - which is the public is stupid and willingly sucks in whatever is forced at us by the press. We can make our own minds up and will do.

Edited by matt_himself (28 Nov 2015 7.01am)

 


"That was fun and to round off the day, I am off to steal a charity collection box and then desecrate a place of worship.” - Smokey, The Selhurst Arms, 26/02/02

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View Qwijibo's Profile Qwijibo Flag Bournemouth 27 Nov 15 9.46pm Send a Private Message to Qwijibo Add Qwijibo as a friend

If only labour had a decent spin doctor

 

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View Y Ddraig Goch's Profile Y Ddraig Goch Flag In The Crowd 27 Nov 15 10.22pm Send a Private Message to Y Ddraig Goch Add Y Ddraig Goch as a friend

It wasn't whether the press manipulate, rather his assertion that we are all too stupid to know it.

All the press and media in general have their own agendas. Doesn't mean that they're always wrong. As I said n another thread, it's trying to work your way through what's fact and what's opinion. In recent years there seems to be a lot more opinion than facts.

Equally we as people tend to read publications that publish a view we have an affinity for: Confirmation Bias. What people need to try and do is read articles from multiple sources.

 


the dignified don't even enter in the game

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View Bert the Head's Profile Bert the Head Flag Epsom 27 Nov 15 11.23pm Send a Private Message to Bert the Head Add Bert the Head as a friend

Quote Qwijibo at 27 Nov 2015 9.46pm

If only Labour had a decent spin doctor

...if only we had a free press rather than a load of off shore tax dodgers using advertising revenue to prop up a failed business model to tell us how we ought to live our lives, then we wouldn't need spin doctors.

Let's not forget the press narrative was the use of spin doctors was what alienated Labour from their core voters in the first place.

There is no doubt Corbyn is scruffy in the media but that is because he want's grass roots ordinary people reforming things, rather than a bunch of rich blokes in the media setting the agenda to run things in their paymaster's way; They are well rewarded for their loyalty.

Its a big big big ask to change things. The media represents an interest groups that likes things the neo-liberal way and that's why they try to suffocate his every word. Things are very good for them and getting better and better. Corbyn is very dangerous for them. its the first challenge in a long time and they hate it.

In a democracy the press is meant to be an information system. I would say 70% of the political comments on here are based on information provided by the press rather than any deeper academic writing.

The press is meant to be an information system but its just propaganda of mega rich press barrens. To quote Chomsky quoting Edward Berneys, the father of public relations: the press provides the leadership with a mechanism “to mould the mind of the masses” so that “they will throw their newly gained strength in the desired direction.” The leadership can “regiment the public mind every bit as much as an army regiments the bodies of its soldiers.”

Bernay's is writing just after universal suffrage was won and the elite were terrified about how ordinary people might use that new power in their own interest and thinking about how they could do to control it.

We don't need spin doctors. We need a free press. A decent honest information system.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 27 Nov 15 11.36pm Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

A free press......On the surface it's a nice idea.....The press could be 'more free'...Yeah.

But lets be honest.

A free press has never existed anywhere in the world.

No such thing will likely ever exist.

One of the issues I find with far left ideology is that....admirably in some ways they strive for a utopia....Unfortunately this utopia usually completely excludes the realities of human nature.

At the moment Labour are going through idealism over pragmatism and gifting the Tories the next election.

Labour originally were meant to represent working class people.....But unfortunately along the way the 'guardian inspired' middle class took it over.

It's doomed as an election force for the foreseeable future.

And considering I can't bloody stand David tosser Cameron it's not something I am happy about.

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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Hoof Hearted 28 Nov 15 10.08am

FFS nick.....

Bert needs no encouragement!

 

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Hoof Hearted 28 Nov 15 10.23am

Quote Bert the Head at 27 Nov 2015 11.23pm

In a democracy the press is meant to be an information system. I would say 70% of the political comments on here are based on information provided by the press rather than any deeper academic writing.

We don't need spin doctors. We need a free press. A decent honest information system.


Cobblers!

I doubt that very few people on here read Newspapers anymore Bert.

I gather my information from TV, Radio and online sources... I suspect most others do too. I accept that some of it might be biased, but by getting it from different sources I can judge it's validity. To a certain degree this forum is a good filter for what the truth might be with contributors from all political and religious spectrums.

Your continued assertion that we are all sheep being fed information by the right wing "press" is outdated and wrong.

You are living in Epsom Bert, not Pyongyang.

 

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legaleagle Flag 28 Nov 15 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.

Newspapers (whether accessed on line or in hard copy) undoubtedly remain powerful influences on how we (generally) get our info about the world,as do new on line news sources (ie Vice,part owner R Murdoch).

It is undeniable that such things are largely owned in the UK by people of means of a right wing disposition,given that money tends to buy the ability to own national news sources. viz. Mail (Rothermere family) Telegraph (Barclay brothers) Sun/Times (Murdoch).

It would be hard to argue that such papers are not somewhat biased in the slant they give to available facts and what they choose to highlight and not to highlight.

Corbyn at Remembrance day being a good recent example.I doubt many of us were there.If you read an item slagging him for snubbing the official lunch,it may have reinforced a negative view you already had of him.If you read an outlet explaining that he did so in order to remain behind and spend time talking to veterans rather than have a posh lunch,it may have reinforced a view that he is the first decent human being we've had as a party leader for some time.If your news source only mentioned the former slant,you would be ignorant of a neutral view of the facts,however much you can think for yourself.

But,we are never going to live in a world which is ideal and have a perfectly "neutral" press with a perfect level playing field for all would be news outlets and points of view.Also,we are not stupid and retain the ability to think for ourselves.

But,not withstanding that we cannot but be influenced by what we read.Take China.I remember growing up thinking it was a really bad place,based completely on what I read in the press and saw on TV.All of a sudden,Nixon had gone to China,and the coverage all focused on how they weren't so bad after all,indeed they were our new "friends".

But,we could ensure that we have as much balance as possible in our access to information by thinking about the extent to which we allow people to say own more than one paper or a paper plus TV/cable interests.WE could also reimpose stronger "public interest programming" caveats on commercial broadcasters.And think if we can do anything similar re UK-based on line news providers.We could introduce proper press regulation as per Leveson to give the non rich a chance to curb some of the press' negative excesses by obtaining proper redress.

There is,of course,one other thing we could realistically do to keep our media from becoming even more subjective and skewed predominantly on way in coverage.We could stop the assault on our "jewel in the crown",the BBC and make sure its news services get adequate funding instead of the cuts in recent years.Listening to it recently all the time when driving on the World Service is a reminder of what a gem it is (and could be much better)surrounded by thorns.

But that might require the likes of Murdoch to stop bashing it and stop utilising their close links to politicians to attack it.It might require us to make our displeasure about that somewhat more known.Which brings us full circle to why would Murdoch want to bash the BBC and in who's interests is it that we have become so anti-BBC as a result of mass negative press coverage,spotlighting the bad aspects while downplaying the good.

Edited by legaleagle (28 Nov 2015 12.01pm)

 

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View susmik's Profile susmik Flag PLYMOUTH -But Made in Old Coulsdon... 28 Nov 15 11.01am Send a Private Message to susmik Add susmik as a friend

It seems from the news today that Labour MP's are looking at the legal way to get rid of him as Leader due to his monumental c0ck ups in what he writes and what he says......Its a pity because with him as Labour leader the party has no or very little chance of ever getting back in power!

 


Supported Palace for over 69 years since the age of 7 and have seen all the ups and downs and will probably see many more ups and downs before I go up to the big football club in the sky.

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Hoof Hearted 28 Nov 15 11.15am

Quote legaleagle at 28 Nov 2015 10.54am

Apologies in advance for rambling...

Good to see the usual suspects engaging in the usual irrelevant "left" bashing.

Bert has a point and makes some sense if readers can see beyond their own knee jerk prejudices,as does Hoof.



My only concern with Bert is his refusal to accept that any of us are capable of evaluating messages and filtering out the spin.

You've made a good case for the unfair nature of Corbyn's reporting, but you have not mentioned the totally unfair nature of the bombardment that Nigel Farage has taken from the media!

Not only that, he has had to put up with being shouted down whilst campaigning by left wing activists and even had a quiet family Sunday lunch in a pub invaded by scumbags that cannot campaign peaceably or in a socially acceptable fashion.

I don't remember you or anyone else making an impassioned plea on Nigel Farage's behalf?

Just accept, that any message imparted into the arena will have some sort of spin on it, and if you want to get nearer to the truth, read a few different sources and make your own mind up as to who is most likely to be the most honest.

 

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View Stirlingsays's Profile Stirlingsays Flag 28 Nov 15 11.42am Send a Private Message to Stirlingsays Holmesdale Online Elite Member Add Stirlingsays as a friend

I would agree that the focus upon Corbyn upon remembrance day was just plain wrong.

He deserved criticism for not singing the national anthem previously to that but personally I thought on the day he was better than the 'bigger nodders' as he actually stayed and greeted the veterans rather than be driven off for the usual elitist dinner.

We probably.....For all its obvious faults and needs for improvements have just as balanced a media exposure as any people in the world have.

That's an achievement of western culture almost exclusively.

Not for us the closing down of alternative (non violent) views that plague the realities of so many others around the world.

Edited by Stirlingsays (28 Nov 2015 11.43am)

 


'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen)

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