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 georgenorman  06 May 24 8.19am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
I regarded the suggestion as impertinent. My views on taxation and my own finances are separate matters, the latter being personal and private. What others do is for them. I was merely trying to throw some light on your hypocrisy.
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 robdave2k 06 May 24 8.23am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
It won’t. They won’t make the housing crisis worse than it already is. We will see increased taxes aimed at people like me but not done in a way that diminishes the rental sector. Horses***. Mind you the current incumbents have wrecked the sector with S24. Landlords are demonised, whereas they are actually the lifeblood of the property market. Bad ones should be strung up through. No Government is going to back landlords. A landlord with one vote can vote once. My guess, they will hammer pensions (whoever it is), to then leave landlords no where to go - so they can turn the screw further. Now I appreciate you are the oracle in all matters, and in any situation you were “just last week” talking to an exact expert in any field. I work in taxation, a lot of which is property taxation, and whilst it’s laudable that you vote with principles, you’re voting as a financially sound pensioner from Cornwall. Not someone (for example) living in a heavily industrial town that is suffering, or someone who saw the pandemic decimate their business. You’re utterly f***** clueless as to the actual cost of living crisis, as you are insulated. Fair play to you. But please stop lecturing all and sundry on things you know frankly sod all about. Until you’ve looked someone in the eye and seeing them about to lose everything, you’ve got literally no idea.
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| georgenorman 06 May 24 8.42am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
What my charitable gifts are will not be discussed here. They are a private matter. What people think is best for them is very often based on selfish desires and not clear-headed objectivity. Edited by Wisbech Eagle (05 May 2024 11.08pm) No one is asking for you to provide details of any charitable donations that you might make. The question was why don't you calculate how much extra tax that you think should be taken from you and disperse it in some way that you think will benefit society as a whole (albeit what you think benefits society as a whole could be quite problematic.) As for people being selfish and not clear-heading in spending what is left of their money after the ravages of the taxman. On the contrary, ordinary people are far better at spending their money wisely than any government. You describe them using their money for the benefit of themselves and their families as 'selfish' - what contempt you show for ordinary people. People are far more clear-headed than the layer upon layer of government that taxes them. The collective wisdom and the collective will of the country does not lie in Whitehall 'planning' offices, but in consumers expressing choice and producers reacting to those choices, in savers and investors using their judgement to find the best return on their funds.
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 May 24 8.47am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
I was merely trying to throw some light on your hypocrisy. There’s nothing hypocritical about having some principles and living by them.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 May 24 8.56am |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
No one is asking for you to provide details of any charitable donations that you might make. The question was why don't you calculate how much extra tax that you think should be taken from you and disperse it in some way that you think will benefit society as a whole (albeit what you think benefits society as a whole could be quite problematic.) As for people being selfish and not clear-heading in spending what is left of their money after the ravages of the taxman. On the contrary, ordinary people are far better at spending their money wisely than any government. You describe them using their money for the benefit of themselves and their families as 'selfish' - what contempt you show for ordinary people. People are far more clear-headed than the layer upon layer of government that taxes them. The collective wisdom and the collective will of the country does not lie in Whitehall 'planning' offices, but in consumers expressing choice and producers reacting to those choices, in savers and investors using their judgement to find the best return on their funds. That is not a question I believe to be appropriate to ask anyone and not one I will answer. My conscience is clear and that’s the only thing that matters to me. The country could not function without taxation, which is a side effect of the requirements of democracy. Some things must be organised collectively and they need to be paid for collectively. Whether you tax spending or income are other questions. No individual can be clear headed about that. There would be millions of different priorities.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| georgenorman 06 May 24 9.40am |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
That is not a question I believe to be appropriate to ask anyone and not one I will answer. My conscience is clear and that’s the only thing that matters to me. The country could not function without taxation, which is a side effect of the requirements of democracy. Some things must be organised collectively and they need to be paid for collectively. Whether you tax spending or income are other questions. No individual can be clear headed about that. There would be millions of different priorities. What, like for the millions of different genders? Of course there are many things which a government must decide upon and control on behalf of the country, mainly in areas of foreign affairs, defence, law and order, public services, social welfare - and these things need funding. Beyond these things government should keep out, and the many layers of government and bureaucracy should be pruned and taxation reduced as far a practicable - giving more tax to governments is like giving whisky to an alcoholic. The key to progress is to allow the country to shape its economic future through the free choice of its citizens (Brexit was a key facilitator of this).
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HKOwen  Hong Kong 06 May 24 12.39pm |
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Originally posted by georgenorman
I was merely trying to throw some light on your hypocrisy. It over illuminated already, can you believe " impertinent ", who would use that, seriously? Edited by HKOwen (06 May 2024 12.42pm)
Responsibility Deficit Disorder is a medical condition. Symptoms include inability to be corrected when wrong, false sense of superiority, desire to share personal info no else cares about, general hubris. It's a medical issue rather than pure arrogance. |
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| Eden Eagle Kent 06 May 24 1.23pm |
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Originally posted by Wisbech Eagle
So what is best for you and yours? Short term satisfaction or long term security? I have never believed that voting was only about yourself and those directly dependant on you but that collectively we need to consider what is best for the country and the wider world because in fact all our futures depend on that. I would never vote for anyone who offered me a tax cut just to encourage me to vote for them. I regard bribery as a crime and if anything it turns me away, not towards. So I do what I believe is correct. Which is to ignore any personal implications and concentrate on the collective. It was mightily convenient that the lunatic lockdown policy you supported (and continue to do so) completely aligned with your personal financial situation: 1. Retired so continued to receive pension income when all around you others lost their jobs. Tick ✔️ You remind me Wisbech of the General in Blackadder (Melfort?) who is happy to send tens of thousands of soldiers “over the top” to almost certain death for a pointless and unachievable objective whilst sitting in your HQ Chateau miles behind enemy lines drinking fine wine and dining on lobster. You have no “skin in the game” and should cease lecturing others. I appreciate this is the US Politics thread but it is the same message from WE over on the CV one..
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| Eden Eagle Kent 06 May 24 1.24pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
It was mightily convenient that the lunatic lockdown policy you supported (and continue to do so) completely aligned with your personal financial situation: 1. Retired so continued to receive pension income when all around you others lost their jobs. You remind me Wisbech of the General in Blackadder (Melfort?) who is happy to send tens of thousands of soldiers “over the top” to almost certain death for a pointless and unachievable objective whilst sitting in your HQ Chateau miles behind enemy lines drinking fine wine and dining on lobster. You have no “skin in the game” and should cease lecturing others. I appreciate this is the US Politics thread but it is the same message from WE over on the CV one..
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| Eden Eagle Kent 06 May 24 1.26pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
Aargh - tried to remove the “tick” signs which don’t show correctly and ended up posting twice!
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 May 24 3.30pm |
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Originally posted by robdave2k
Horses***. Mind you the current incumbents have wrecked the sector with S24. Landlords are demonised, whereas they are actually the lifeblood of the property market. Bad ones should be strung up through. No Government is going to back landlords. A landlord with one vote can vote once. My guess, they will hammer pensions (whoever it is), to then leave landlords no where to go - so they can turn the screw further. Now I appreciate you are the oracle in all matters, and in any situation you were “just last week” talking to an exact expert in any field. I work in taxation, a lot of which is property taxation, and whilst it’s laudable that you vote with principles, you’re voting as a financially sound pensioner from Cornwall. Not someone (for example) living in a heavily industrial town that is suffering, or someone who saw the pandemic decimate their business. You’re utterly f***** clueless as to the actual cost of living crisis, as you are insulated. Fair play to you. But please stop lecturing all and sundry on things you know frankly sod all about. Until you’ve looked someone in the eye and seeing them about to lose everything, you’ve got literally no idea.
I hesitated before answering this as it seems to contain some misplaced anger. I am one of the responsible landlords and have never used S24, although I have been left with unpaid arrears several times. Governments might not value the voting power of landlords more than that of tenants but they need them onside. So I see no attack on them specifically but yes I do see the probability of pension and unearned income being targeted. I haven’t talked directly to an “expert” in years. So I have no idea where that idea comes from as it’s not a claim I have made. I am almost 80 and deep into my retirement. That has given me a little experience over the years on which to form opinions. Opinions which I trust I am allowed to have and share. Opinions no one has to even read, let alone agree with. Yes I now live comfortably in Cornwall, but there is deprivation here too. My flats are in an area of high deprivation, so I get to see it. Some of it is imaginary because of what people see as their priorities. Those who want a 65 inch TV in every room as their priority yet still use a food bank, need to look at themselves first. Some though do struggle. I know that. My eyes can see and I have previously lived in other places so am very well aware of it. There are a couple of local charities providing support by way of donated furniture etc, which some tenants have had to use to make a new start. I refer them to the organisers and have also donated furniture myself. So whilst I have indeed managed to avoid the experience myself I am not insulated from it.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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| Wisbech Eagle Truro Cornwall 06 May 24 3.46pm |
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Originally posted by Eden Eagle
It was mightily convenient that the lunatic lockdown policy you supported (and continue to do so) completely aligned with your personal financial situation: 1. Retired so continued to receive pension income when all around you others lost their jobs. Tick ✔️ You remind me Wisbech of the General in Blackadder (Melfort?) who is happy to send tens of thousands of soldiers “over the top” to almost certain death for a pointless and unachievable objective whilst sitting in your HQ Chateau miles behind enemy lines drinking fine wine and dining on lobster. You have no “skin in the game” and should cease lecturing others. I appreciate this is the US Politics thread but it is the same message from WE over on the CV one.. It’s off topic but briefly. The Lockdowns were far from “lunatic”. At the stage of the pandemic they were used they were essential. Yes I receive pensions, because I am retired. So no need for the support given to others. None of my pensions are based on final salary. All were money purchase schemes. I own 3 small rental units, which I purchased to supplement my pensions. I could have spent that money on a bigger house and a luxury car but as I don’t need either I didn’t. Yes Cornwall is lovely. I took the decision to move here. Nothing to stop anyone doing the same. They just need the determination. Many achieve it. Some with next to no money.
For the avoidance of doubt any comments in response to a previous post are directed to its ideas and not at any, or all, posters personally. |
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