Gaza Strip 'invades' Israel.
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 Slimey Toad  Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 09 Oct 23 12.33pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
You seriously think doing that ends Palestinian hatred of Jews? Border secure means an army. It's the easy to say fantasy that keeps getting mentioned because few are willing to admit to themselves the on the ground harsh truth of what's happened here. The most probable end to this is the removal of Palestinians from that land....which has Indian partition written all over it. Also, I don't even want to mention nuclear because this generation apparently thinks playing chicken is fine. There is no such thing as peace between rival castles, only intervals between conflicts. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Oct 2023 8.44am) I was referring to others, not me. Speak to some of the Vox Populi on the ground in Israel and you will hear 'they do have a state, it's called Jordan (most of their population is ethnically Palestinian anyway)' or 'there is a huge swathe of land they can live in - other Arab States. So, no. I'm not under any illusions.
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silvertop  Portishead 09 Oct 23 12.36pm |
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Originally posted by eaglesdare
And now we are seeing just what happened to the billions of dollars of weapons that sleepy joe left behind in the failed withdrawal of Afghanistan...... Arguably, we shouldn't have put them there in the first place.
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| silvertop Portishead 09 Oct 23 12.53pm |
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Originally posted by Stirlingsays
Definitely Iran, possibly even more than them but I'm speculating. They would only be Shi'a. That represents about 12% of all Muslims. And outside Iran, they live mainly in Bahrain, Azerbaijan and Iraq, although there are sizeable numbers in the Indian Sub-continent (thanks Wiki). There may be private funding, but I doubt e.g. any of those 3 countries would sponsor Palestinian terrorism on a state level.
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| Slimey Toad Karsiyaka, North Cyprus 09 Oct 23 1.03pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
They would only be Shi'a. That represents about 12% of all Muslims. And outside Iran, they live mainly in Bahrain, Azerbaijan and Iraq, although there are sizeable numbers in the Indian Sub-continent (thanks Wiki). There may be private funding, but I doubt e.g. any of those 3 countries would sponsor Palestinian terrorism on a state level. Palestinians are Sunni, as is Hamas. There are a lot of Shia Lebanese, hence Hizbolahh, but I guess Iran doesn't care as long as Jews are being killed.
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| nhp61 Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 09 Oct 23 1.04pm |
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According to the BBC News Website, Israeli tanks, troops and armoured vehicle are massing on the border with Gaza. Tanks are armoured vehicles so I assume they are talking about armoured personnel vehicles, self propelled artillery, etc. When that lot get going it's going to get very messy for Hamas.
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| silvertop Portishead 09 Oct 23 1.09pm |
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Originally posted by Forest Hillbilly
I think speculation is all anyone, except those at the top, can do. Interesting turn of phrase by the BBC. "Retaliatory Israeli action" This is much easier than NI to sort. Get the Israel borders clearly defined and immovable. and recognise Palestine as a country. But people at the top seemingly want Israel to destroy the Palestinian people. Ha, this is like an Oxford Uni debating theme like "Defend the acts of Hitler". It is a wholly intractable problem with innumerable vested interests; dogmatic fundamentalist religion from all of the 3 Abrahamic religions; and a great deal of history that is too intense and too recent to put to one side. Thus, let us just deal with setting a border. "Moderate" Palestinians (whatever/whoever they are?) have long said that recognize the 1967 UN-set borders and the problem will go away. Firstly, the chances of Israel simply handing back all that land is somewhere between zero and nowt; and there is no power that can or will force them to do so. Secondly, moderate Palestinians may say that, but the good people of Palestine gave up on sensible international intervention long ago and have embraced extremism as all that is left. They will only see an end comprising all Jews being forced into the sea and Israel replaced with a Suria state. Thus, the chances of getting a firm border established = none. And with that goes the Forest Hillbilly Peace Plan.
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| Badger11 Beckenham 09 Oct 23 1.11pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
They would only be Shi'a. That represents about 12% of all Muslims. And outside Iran, they live mainly in Bahrain, Azerbaijan and Iraq, although there are sizeable numbers in the Indian Sub-continent (thanks Wiki). There may be private funding, but I doubt e.g. any of those 3 countries would sponsor Palestinian terrorism on a state level. A Middle East expert made a comment years ago that many countries in that region don't want this conflict to be resolved. It suits their internal politics to have Israel as the enemy and the Palestinians as perpetual victims. If peace broke out perhaps the peoples of these other countries might start wondering about their own governments instead.
One more point |
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| silvertop Portishead 09 Oct 23 1.12pm |
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Originally posted by Slimey Toad
Palestinians are Sunni, as is Hamas. There are a lot of Shia Lebanese, hence Hizbolahh, but I guess Iran doesn't care as long as Jews are being killed. You are correct. Hush my mouth.
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| Stirlingsays Online 09 Oct 23 1.23pm |
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Originally posted by Slimey Toad
I was referring to others, not me. Speak to some of the Vox Populi on the ground in Israel and you will hear 'they do have a state, it's called Jordan (most of their population is ethnically Palestinian anyway)' or 'there is a huge swathe of land they can live in - other Arab States. So, no. I'm not under any illusions. There are millions of Palestinians. If this were some kind of solution then why hasn't it come to pass? Perhaps it will but I don't see what the incentive is for Arab states. As long as my country keeps it nose out...something it seems incapable of doing....I'm just an observer.
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Stirlingsays Online 09 Oct 23 1.27pm |
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Originally posted by silvertop
They would only be Shi'a. That represents about 12% of all Muslims. And outside Iran, they live mainly in Bahrain, Azerbaijan and Iraq, although there are sizeable numbers in the Indian Sub-continent (thanks Wiki). There may be private funding, but I doubt e.g. any of those 3 countries would sponsor Palestinian terrorism on a state level. The phrase, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' comes to mind. Many such cases. Nevertheless it is estimated that Sunni and Sufis make up about five to ten percent of Islam in Iran. Edited by Stirlingsays (09 Oct 2023 1.36pm)
'Who are you and how did you get in here? I'm a locksmith. And, I'm a locksmith.' (Leslie Nielsen) |
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| Hrolf The Ganger 09 Oct 23 1.39pm |
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Originally posted by Matov
Hell of a lot not adding up in the slightest here. The gap in terms of military capacity between Hammas and the Israeli army is almost incomprehensible, allied with supposedly one of the top intelligence agencies in the world. And yet that literally stroll in, massacre hundreds at a pop concert along with all kinds of other s***, with no real resistance put up? Nah. It stinks to high heaven. There is more going on here than the news will tell us. Biden has been cosying up to Iran and Israel have been talking to Saudi. What ever the case, we will be told a pack of lies.
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| nhp61 Goring-By-Sea born, now in Brackne... 09 Oct 23 2.00pm |
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It does seem strange how the Israel was so unprepared. An attack of that size would not have occurred without an awful lot of planning. Depends on who you listen to, but anywhere from 2200 to 5000 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza. The logistical preparation just for that should surely have been spotted by the numerous Israeli spies and informers in the territory, and that's not mentioning the mobilisation of fighters, weapons, ammunition, vehicles, etc. Either Hamas are incredibly adept at keeping their secrets or there was a serious lack of communication with the intelligence systems of Israel.
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